powering a Stirling engine with HHO generator

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mpetruescu2001
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powering a Stirling engine with HHO generator

Post by mpetruescu2001 »

I was wondering if its possible to power the Stirling engine with a
HHO generator. The HHO is a thing when you split water by running
electricity thru it(in short)which produces hydrogen and oxygen. I've
seen them lighing that up and making a tourch with it. What if you use
that on the hot side and something on the cold side(water,car
radiator, etc)then have the engine hooked up to a gear box(or not)then
have a alternator attached which powers a battery for the HHO. And
lets say if you also have a converter hooked somewhere up there. I
know that depending on the size of the setup not much power can be
produced or could be alot. Is this possible or not??
bptdude___2569
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Response to powering a Stirling engine with HHO generator

Post by bptdude___2569 »

*grins*

Did I miss something?
I think you have the concept bass-ackward.
You want to use perfectly good electricity, to make hydrogen and oxygen, to burn, to make a Stirling engine go ?

You DO realize you could just use an electric motor with the electicity?

The trick, is to use some form of readily available energy, not useful to other types of engines, and power a Stirling engine, to make electricity. One step furher, would be to use that electricity to manufacture hydrogen for fuel.

But, to answer your question ....
yes, you could burn hydrogen, which would burn like a welding torch, if you also supplied the oxygen, to heat one side of a Stirling engine. That kind of heat would work real nice, even though practical scale Stirling engines are scarce as hen's teeth.

cchagnot
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Response to powering a Stirling engine with HHO generator

Post by cchagnot »

That would depend on the efficiency of the HHO. I did a quick web search and couldn't
find any concrete info on efficiencies. By efficiency I mean 'how many watts of electricity
will produce how many watts of burnable hydrogen assuming the hydrogen was burned at
100% efficiency?'. Say 10 watts of electricity would disassociate 100 watts of hydrogen. I
have absolutely no idea of the actual numbers but pick these to illustrate the problem.
Then say that one can burn 80% of this energy and get it into a Stirling engine that has an
efficiency of 30%. That's 80 watts in, resulting in approx. 24 watts of shaft or PV power out
of the Stirling . Assume you have a 80% efficient generator and that gives you 19.2 watts
of electricity available for use of which 10 watts goes to the disassociation of water to
hydrogen. 9.2 watts would be left over for other uses. What's clear from this little exercise
is that one would have to have an efficiency of 10 to one for the HHO for the system to
start to make sense. Anyone out there know what efficiencies are actually achieved?
bptdude___2569
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Response to powering a Stirling engine with HHO generator

Post by bptdude___2569 »

Oh, did I miss something in physics class?
Like the laws of thermodynamics?

# Catherine Chagnot, May 9, 2008, said
"Say 10 watts of electricity would disassociate 100 watts of hydrogen."

As far as I know, this is impossible. 10 watts in does not give 100 watts out! In fact, the highest you could hope for would be 10 watts in and 10 watts out with a perfect system of no loss, which do not exist. The purpose being to convert to something else.

If I am wrong, please please tell me how/what!!

Aside from slitting an atom { or fusion }, chemistry and physics do not work that way.

Neat trick if you figure it out!
I will invest in your company!
:)

cchagnot
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Response to powering a Stirling engine with HHO generator

Post by cchagnot »

I'm not talking about creating energy. Mearly liberating hydrogen locked up in water.
Please look again at what I wrote. What is the actual efficiency of disassociating h2 from
water anyway?
cchagnot
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Response to powering a Stirling engine with HHO generator

Post by cchagnot »

OK. Having called a physicist friend I'm told that the efficiency for conversion by
electrolysis is between 50-70 percent. So it's a no brainer.100 watts of elect can only
produce about 70 watts worth of H2. It's not going to make any sense to use it to run a
Stirling.
mpetruescu2001
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Response to powering a Stirling engine with HHO generator

Post by mpetruescu2001 »

The minimum voltage to split water is around 1.5 volts.
1 gallon of water produces about 1300 gallons of hydrogen and you have the oxygen in there too, and now if you have a 6-cell HHO....6 times the amount of it.
bptdude___2569
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Response to powering a Stirling engine with HHO generator

Post by bptdude___2569 »

Catherine,

I hope you were not offended by my response. Sometimes my lightheartedness in responses comes across as harsh, as my wife just reminded me.

Any idea is worth taking a look at, and I am glad you looked it up, and figured it out.

Any "machine", including Stirlings, are about converting one form of energy to another, with assumed loss in the process. The trick is to take one form you have available, but not so usefull, and convert it to a specific form to be used for an intended pupose.

The Stirling gives hope, because it has the potential of coverting unusual sources of energy that conventional engines do not use, and converts it to a form that can drive a crankshaft { and other forms of output }, which can make universal forms of energy, such as electricity.

What is so often overlooked, is that electricity can make hydrogen, which is better than gasoline for conventional engines. You will be astonished to hear people say things like "sure, we could generate all the electricity we want in the middle of Death Valley, but it is too far away to use power lines, and batteries are too expensive". And you will hear people say "sure, we can generate all the electricity in the world we want from ocean thermal differences out at sea, but that is not going to help the price of gas at the pump"

If you really wanted to help, perhaps you could do what I can not. Somehow bring awareness that the silly little Stirling engine could make enough hydrogen to replace all fossil fuels, avert global war for energy resources, bring prosperity by supplying an abundance of energy, and save the planet by stopping global warming.

You think I am kidding?

cchagnot
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Response to powering a Stirling engine with HHO generator

Post by cchagnot »

Joe,

That's OK. I'm pretty thick skinned and I'd be the last person to advocate violating the
second law of thermodynamics, let alone the first.

As for millions of Stirling engines out there. Well it's coming, and coming fairly soon.
Whether using them to produce hydrogen for automotive use, or distributed electric power
the dream so many have held for so long is close to being realized. Sunpower's 1KW FPSE
is now in early manufacturing and headed for mass production at reasonable cost. Initially
it will be used in Europe in a compact CHP system running on natural gas providing
domestic hot water for heat and electricity to the grid. I know that efforts are underway to
use the engine in small solar systems. Once production of a reliable engine at reasonable
cost is managed all sorts of uses will develop.

cchagnot
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Response to powering a Stirling engine with HHO generator

Post by cchagnot »

Joe,

If you send me an email address I'll email you a short promotional video of the Microgen CHP
with Sunpower's 1 KW engine.
Catherine
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