Stirling engines for the third world

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robbinsb
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Joined: Wed May 19, 2004 12:51 am
First Name: Ben
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Response to Stirling engines for the third world

Post by robbinsb »

I have for a very long time thought that using a simple solar collector to heat water to heat a Stirling engine would be feasible or worth a try. Additionally i wonder that there are alot of internal combustion engines and associated parts which are, essentially, out of fuel. These autos seem to me to be an excellent source of cheap materials widely available. If a protocol for how to convert a otto cycle engine (or perhaps 2 4cyl Ottos, one hot one cold) into a Stirling cycle engine were created that could be simply taught or cheaply published and distributed (then production time is travel time!) and this protocol used or could be adapted to use the pre manufactured junk parts abounding throughout the world, you would very much have a cheap alternative. a simple flat panel collector could be constructed from a layer of glass (old windsheild?) and a smooth black surface (slate, or better in conjunction with a windshield some black ceramic, mix charcoal with clay thus getting the all important insulation for flat collectors) sandwiching a layer of water. use coolant passages to circulate hot (cold) water? use catalytic converter as a regenerator? (that ones a little far out) hmmm thanks im glad this place exists.
tokol_13
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Response to Stirling engines for the third world

Post by tokol_13 »

If you will excuse the pun - i think there is a way to see light at the end of this tunnel! I have read the comments with much interest and perhaps a different perspective. I am not a Techie and only stumbled over the Stirling engine recently (and entirely by accident) as i was focused on applying steam technology as part of a solution to lo-cost (always a relative term)power supply to rural west africa. I have worked in this region for 30 years and well understand the potential in development terms of an appropriate and cost effective power/energy supply.
My deficiency is that i am not an engineer but it is apparent from the messages that lots of you have the technical expertise but the comments that caught my eye were on the "marketing" problems. Eric and Ricardo have looked at a very valid option - the opportunity to provide the equipment through public/private NGO and funding programmes (and this is well established for other items as diverse as condoms, solar cookers, computers and Vsat systems)This alone is a substantial market but as is usual the resources of the "poor" 3rd world are underestimated. I have just returned from "the poorest country in the world" (Sierra Leone) and believe me if a suitable engine capable of using a variety of available fuel sources was produced there would be a considerable market.

I am in the process of "conceptually" designing such a system and intend to include all the usual "sustainable" energy sources - plus a few surprising ones. It should be appreciated that the 3rd world is a big place and conditions vary enomously therefore it is necessary to devise a sytem that could utilise flexible and could be multi fueled, integrated, and adaptable.

I would be most grateful if anyone with the technical expertise would be prepared to colaborate in some detailed exploration of the potential of this development - I am currently based in the UK and there are can be plentiful sources of funding available for the right development project - provided that both the purpose and practicability can be proven to be appropriate- i guess there must be these facilities available in US but in order to access them the right approach must be made - Humanitarianism does not preclude commercialism!

I would be more than happy to discuss some of the more detailed aspects of my overall concept (appropriate technology, fuel supply, market, needs etc.)with any and all

Thanks
gurmitchauhan
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Response to Stirling engines for the third world

Post by gurmitchauhan »

I have read this article and the comments with great interest; I think such an engine will be great for third world countries. I have been working on “Hot Air Motors” in India for 2 years and you feedback has encouraged me to start development again. I stopped this few months ago because of poor results and of course scarcity of finances.
yonseiaspiration
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Last Name: Gordon

Response to Stirling engines for the third world

Post by yonseiaspiration »



Dear Gurmit Singh and Dai Davies,

I've been thinking along very similar lines for some time now.

I watched a programme about how Kenyan farmers doubled their crop yields by using a foot pump and 20 metres of plastic tubing, produced cheaply and locally. This was a major advance on hauling water from a well.

I have several ideas I think could be useful but no idea as to how to get in touch with either of you. I'm not sure whether I could write my e-mail address here or not, and do not wish to break any community rules.

Ian Gordon

abuferne
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Last Name: BUFERNE

Response to Stirling engines for the third world

Post by abuferne »

AS Brent said "it still will cost more when first produced than a Honda generator". We are talking about technic and philosophy, the world is speaking money.

I looked at whispergen inroduction of AC home cogeneration in UK,they don't intend to have a wood burner for the moment and only rely on gas or fuel.

All this matter of doing things for the third world could become in the future of our children, doing thing for our world.
Actually we have the luxurious choice of finding better and cleaner fashion of producing energy, the poor country don't have this choice. If we don't show the right way, our exemple will drive the whole planet to keep on doing the same errors. Ecology will be a hobby for rich people until the day it will be a "we should have done ..." for everybody.
There is probably an immense field of research and job creation.
Why any governement (or so few) are doing real things about this?
Oil company are driving and we are pushing...
Open solution is working for intelectual work but how to build a structure to manufacture such equipment?

gurmitchauhan
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First Name: Gurmit
Last Name: Singh

Response to Stirling engines for the third world

Post by gurmitchauhan »

Hi Ian Gordon,

Well, I think there is nothing wrong if you write your email in the message. Anyway my email is gurmitchauhan@yahoo.com

Gurmit Singh.
tokol_13
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Response to Stirling engines for the third world

Post by tokol_13 »

alaine - as much as i appreciate your obvious zeal I cannot sympathise with your sentiments - the glass is always half full not half empty! the key is to consider how to get honda interested in making the Stirling!
I consider myself a cynical optimist and am very aware of the commercial problems but the key to using sterlings is not in the equipment itself its in the availability and cost of the fuel.

Oil is difficult to obtain for most developing countries and has to be paid for in hard currency - woodfuel is generally available (despite the green view that it is the major cause of deforestation it isnt)and has been used sustainably for generations - there is an opportunity to use this as a source of electricity generation - to vastly improve the quality of life of the poor - ever been in a village at night and seen the positive change that a single lightbulb can make? I am not talking the green alternative or huge national schemes - thats been tried and there are many instances of failure.
i see the small scale generation of electricity using simple equipment burning biomass (in any form) as a practical solution to iniate self-development and not a final solution to all the energy problems of the world

The intellectuals and the academics and the industrialists are capable of doing this but have no real motivation - are they needed?



ijgordon
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Joined: Wed Oct 06, 2004 1:47 am
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Response to Stirling engines for the third world

Post by ijgordon »


After reading about the technical innovations surrounding Whispertech's Stirling engine (a wobble yoke that reduces internal wear and tear apparently), it seems that wear and tear on seals and guides limits the operational life of the engine. Thus wouldn't you have to take the thing apart every six months?

njimihunt___5788
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Response to Stirling engines for the third world

Post by njimihunt___5788 »

I also have served in the third world, in the Solomon Islands and Vanuatu and Papua New Guinea. I agree that people like to have what they have seen other countries have. Yet now, as we see the need to get away from petroleum products we are all in the same boat as it were, and need to try everything, also convince people like Honda that we are keen, and they will do it better.
I have lots of firewood, and have been looking at converting a 90 degree V motorcycle engine, but meanwhile doing experiments with the fluidyne option. Books by West and Reader make tantalising suggestions for fourcylinder models of these, but has anyone made one in the 20 years since they wrote? Jim Hunt, West Auckland, New Zealand.
fvanicek
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Response to Stirling engines for the third world

Post by fvanicek »

Please, how big would have to be an engine that would produce 2HP (1500 Watts mechanical output) on a temp difference of 40 degrees Celsius? (70V hot and 30 C cold). Of course, it would be big, but how big? Considering that such thing would be purely stacionary power generating station in a remote off-grid settlement, it can be really big and still be considered perfectly practical. If the only alternative is bringing extremely expensive diesel fuel to run a generator, bringing it in 10+ days of journey by riverboat, even very big fuel-free generator would be considered very, very practical. This is not a theoretical excercice, this is a real-life scenario in hundreds of settlements in the Amazon (Brazil). My idea is to use conventional solar collectors (good and cheap ones available here) to heat water in a large thermo-isolated water tank (like 15000 litres, we regularly use these), acting as a thermal battery, allowing the engine run at night). Then, the hot water (70 degrees C) wold be pumped to the hot side of the big, simple engine by small continuously running pump. The cold side would be cooled by water from nearby river (there's always one in the Amazon), keeping the cold side at 30 degrees Celsius. The engine can be really huge, absolutely no problem with that. Maximum size that would be considered practical is 12x2,5 metres, 3 metres high. This is a size of an object transportable by a standard flatbed truck (brazilian flatbed truck). It's dry weight can be up to 30000 kg (yes - 30 metric tonnes). Do someone thing such a ting can be built? If the answer is yes, I'm going to do it for real!
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